Ep 42: Finding ways to love yourself and honor your body with Kyira Wackett

Today I am speaking with Kyira Wackett, a Mental Health Therapist who works with people in regard to-shame, negative self-talk and anxiety who is here to help us navigate loving ourselves and ensuring we raise children who love themselves as well.  Her company is called Adversity Rising where she helps to Empower You to Live on Purpose

Outline

What is adversity rising and why is it useful?
1:56

Love your body for everything that it is.
8:00

How beauty is ever changing.
11:08

Empowering our connection to our bodies.
16:40

Talking to your kids about food choices.
19:13

Sitting with your kids and their choices.
24:48

Self-love and self-love starts with ourselves.
31:19

Letting go of expectations of perfection.
34:28

How to deal with body image.
41:56

How to talk about body image in moderation.
44:20

How to get in touch with me.
49:34

Kyira's YouTube video on Dealing with Triggering Comments about Food & Your Body
YouTube video

Kyira's website: Adversity Rising
Focus on a Goal — Adversity Rising

Kyira's YouTube Channel:
Kyira Wackett, MS, LPC - YouTube


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Transcript

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Welcome to raising healthy humans, where you as a busy mom can come each week to find information on health and wellness for your family. Enjoy experts discussing tips to help raise children through each phase of life. Gather current information on nutrition and wellness. And listen to Courtney, a personal trainer and founder of forum fit to provide you with movement and posture tips along the way. It's our goal to help provide you with the information you need to help raise healthy humans. Today I'm speaking with Kyra whack it a mental health therapist who works with people in regards to shame, negative self talk and anxiety and is here to help us navigate loving ourselves and ensuring we raise children who love themselves as well. Her company's called adversity rising, where she helps to empower you to live on purpose. Today, we are speaking about self love and acceptance of our body, talking about the foods our children are eating and how to speak to them about the foods they eat in a neutral way. And then working with families in helping navigate how we should all be speaking to our children. I hope you all enjoy. Let's listen in. So I am a mom to an almost two year old I am a licensed mental health therapist. In Portland, Oregon. My specialty as a therapist has been in the eating disorder and anxiety realm with some specific trainings on trauma things that have really allowed me to kind of broaden the scope of how I approach working with people with these diagnoses. I also own my own company called adversity rising. And basically my hope or my goal in launching this company was to take the things that I've learned in my master's program and my continued learning and training and in the therapy room and try to bring that out. So it's more accessible for other people, whether it's tools like this being on a podcast and kind of sharing these snippets and these pieces that I know, working with people in other settings, because as I'm sure many of your listeners are facing right now, there's a shortage of accessible therapy spots. There are waitlists that are 10s 20, you know, hundreds long, unfortunately, in some cases, and so how do we get support appropriately out and matching people's needs when maybe not everyone needs to be in the room but need something different? Okay. And your adversity rising? Can you explain what that is? Your website? So yeah, so my company is essentially everything is funneled on how to get people support in the most accessible way, my focus really is on addressing shame, negative self talk and anxiety. So everything relates to that even as we get into our conversation today to talk about eating disorders. So much of this is rooted in the shame based living and the cultures that were in internalized shame narratives. There's such a deep depth of that there. So I would say everything that you see whether you're seeing the word shame or not, it's all kind of connected to or tethered to that group point. My website's really the hub for finding some free resources. So whether it's my blog posts, my videos that I do on YouTube, guest posts that I do on awesome, other people's podcasts to kind of extend and connect with other people. And then really, right now my focus is on doing speaking events and trainings, I have a therapeutic book club where a small group of people get together and we process books. So we just did Brene Brown's Gifts of Imperfection. And we talked about what that means and how that shows up for all of us. And then in January 2023, I'm launching my program which is based on a modality that I've developed a five step process on how to get out of shame and create a narrative that works for you where you're writing your own story in your life rather than being controlled by shame sheds and supposed to use. Okay, that's great. Do you think here it is, it's Valentine's Day. And with these, all of us moms, women, children, how can we go about finding ways to love ourself in the body that we're in right now? If I think that one of the issues that we run into is that we are a culture of instant gratification and urgency. And so oftentimes, I think self love has gotten wrapped up into that. How do I feel better? How do I do this? How do I, I call them bandaid solutions. So things that are going to make me feel better right now. And if we can't feel it right now, then we stop doing it. This is kind of the reason why New Year's resolution. So we're in February right now, there's probably a lot of people that step something and are feeling as though they failed. It's this idea of if I don't get it right right away, then I should just stop. It's something that we call in therapy all or nothing thinking. So this idea that I have to be perfect, or I don't do it. And unfortunately, self love and self care are practices. So a practice means it's something that we show up to every day, we invite it into our lives, someday, that might be taking an hour and engaging in some sort of behavior or activity that's really helpful. Sometimes it might be two minutes of an affirmation or three minutes of journaling, or even just simply going to bed when you're tired and nurturing your body and just showing it the love of listening to it when it's talking to you. So what happens, I think is everybody wants it to be boiled down to here's the answer, here's how you do it. And this is how you're gonna feel better right away. Part of the issue is how we feel about our body is meant to change. So even somebody when we talk about body positivity and loving our body, it's the same as we're talking about self esteem, it ebbs and flows. So we all have this their days, we feel like we're, you know, mom to mom, I'm sure you felt this two days, you felt like the worst mom on the planet. And then today's really cool. I got this i That was a rock star mom moment. And then most moments are somewhere in between, they're in the gray. Right? So when it comes to our body, most days, you're not going to feel like oh, this is great. I love it. I love everything about it, I wouldn't change anything that might not even be attainable ever for people. But instead, what I like to think about is, how do we make space to not just be in a state of constantly shaming our body to invite it to show up as it is and to honor what it's doing for us whether that's saying something like how my body's here with me today, as I'm going on this walk that feels really hard and scary, or my body is here with me today, when I was struggling shortly after having my daughter with some body image distress and going and my body is able to hold my daughter safely. And there are people that can't do that, you know, or my body is able to heal itself after this amazing and traumatic experience of having a child. So I know I'm going about a very long answer to your question. That's not really a direct answer. But I think the goal is thinking, how do we shift out of outcome focus when we think about self love and think about process focus, and maybe not the goal of saying I want to love myself right now. But saying I'm going to work at showing myself love every day, even if I don't always feel like I get to the end of the day and love my body for everything that it is. And I think I have heard people mentioned loving what your body does, and what you mentioned yourself, rather than what it looks like. Because we really need to get out of that, you know, what is it doing for us all of the amazing things that it's doing for us than rather what we see in the mirror. Yeah, and so I go back and forth on this because one of the things I remember so I had developed an eating disorder early in my college years. And I remember that when I was struggling, I had a lot of trauma I think I had a lot of internalized narratives about what I should look like I had friends that were all in very small bodies and I and looked a certain way stick straight hair. They were all kind of the picture of what somebody was supposed to look like that looked like me. And and so in my case, I'm I present as white I didn't know until a lot later in my life that I was Middle Eastern, which is why some of the things that having more hair on my body or having bushy your hair on the top of my head things that I was saying, Well, why don't I look like these other girls, I look white? Why don't I look like these people because this is what a white girl is supposed to look like to be beautiful, right? But I learned that I think a lot of it in the responses from my grandma from other people in my life. They said things like oh, it's it's what's on the inside or beauty is this and that. And I do think that's important. And I think thinking about what our body does is important. I can tell you when I've approached this with people in eating disorder recovery in the therapy room and body image just stresses there. The reality is, is we're still a visually experiencing world. And so what we look like is still a factor. So I think sometimes when we talk about think about your legs or walking you know to this place, your body is doing this thing. That's so important. And I don't want to dismiss the fact that you are still being looked at, you are still seeing your legs, you look in the mirror and you see your body. And so the answer can't be will just never look in the mirror again, or like never wash your body or never, you know, that kind of stuff. Right? But I think it's this, this idea of, what are you comparing it to, and who wrote the rules of that comparison guide. And when people think about that more, almost none of us buy into it, none of us really want to believe this is the only picture of beauty. And most of us don't even think that beauty or a great body looks just this way, but we've been conditioned to respond that way. So if instead we can say, cat, of course, it makes sense that I don't feel like my body looks great, because this is what I've been told. And so give yourself Self Compassion to say. So it would feel hard to love my body, I get to choose to love it anyways. And in the middle of that thinking about all the ways that our body does add value to our life by like you said the things that it does, or the way that we can connect to it. Right, I completely 100% agree with everything you're saying. I think it's interesting to see also, as time has gone on how this beauty has changed, you know, I, when I was a child, it was very different as to what was beautiful. And now like my son, he's in high school. And he talks about, you know, what is considered beauty, not from his standpoint, but you know what the other children or other kids boys mention it, it's very different. So I find it very interesting to see how things change. And they're almost, it's almost like it's going back to the 40s and 50s. Like what they find beautiful. But we're also very different. So that makes it very difficult for someone who may not have that type of body to feel like they're being loved. Yeah, and I think what you just pointed out is key from so many standpoints, that what we're sort of taught are the beliefs were indoctrinated with about what's right, or what's the correct place, or again, these ladder systems that are built that at all of us are climbing up for success, for beauty for value, they change all the time, which what that tells you is it's a moving target, you can't get there. So I think one of the big things to decide is, do you want to continue playing a game that's rigged, that leaves you feeling like crap every day. And and this is harder. So when we talk to our kids, when we talk to, you know, middle schoolers, teenagers, they're starting to understand the world in this way. But it's hard to get them to see that because their world is based on this element of comparison and being conditioned to want to fit in because everybody wants to belong. But we confuse it with fitting in and fitting in is how do I conform and look like act like be like everybody around me. So I think I think you brought up a really key point of recognizing it changes all the time on the outside. And our experience of our body changes all the time on the inside. So even for anybody listening, think about how you could feel great or even neutral and your body didn't feel a certain way, and then you ate a meal and suddenly you hate your body. Or you felt really good. And then you put on a pair of pants that didn't fit the way that you remembered that fitting, and suddenly you go down a spiral of hitting your body. Well look how rapidly that changed. The only thing that changed was whether or not you had a pair of pants on or not. But suddenly now your body is worse than it was before because this one pair of pants doesn't fit. So also thinking about how much our experience of our bodies ebbs and flows. So this like our internal system, changing the external system changing, focusing on trying to get to a point that you feel good, just seems like it's a waste of time and energy. Because ultimately, you're going to be feeling that again, like I said that all or nothing and everywhere in the gray your whole life. Right. And when you mentioned all of this, I have to wonder, how are we working on raising our children to start to feel this self love? Because it is like you said it's ever changing? And is it the way we're communicating to them? Is it like, what do you feel is the way that we can start helping them when we are obviously, you know, like you said, it's this ebb and flow we are ever changing. It's always going to be changing. So where can we how can we help them through this, I think so my focus since I started my therapy practice, but then in particular, I think it's been enhanced since becoming a mom has been food neutrality, body connectivity. Okay, so how do I help instill neutral views about food and a connection to the body? Because again, I think body positivity suggests this idea that you're going to feel amazing all the time, and body positivity still has a place. And I very much stand by the work of people in the body positive field and in Health at Every Size. And that work is really valuable. When I think about how I talk about a body every day with my daughter, when I think about how I talk about it with patients, I really want to focus on body connectivity. So the thing that I think about is, it's not just how our body looks like that, we start to kind of shame, we get upset with our body when it's tired, when we feel like we should keep going. We get upset with our body when we feel sick, when we feel sluggish when it's sending us a message that it feels anxious when we feel like we shouldn't be and we should be fine. And so we start to really view our body as a nuisance, rather than something to have a relationship with. And I think this starts to happen as a little kid. And we can condition that in the messages that we use about our own bodies, when we talk about our to our children, in the messages they're receiving from the world at large. And then over time, it's this one relationship, you have your entire life, you and your body. Again, like we said it's ever changing. But it's consistent in the fact that it's always there. And so how do we help empower that connection? So that again, I might say, and I really, my hair is something since I was a little kid I've still struggled with, I'm having a really bad hair day today. That doesn't take away from my value. And it doesn't mean that every part about my body is not okay. It's okay that I feel uncomfortable with my hair today. I still get to show up and have a good day. Breaking that down? Because you're thinking how do we start to apply this to the way that we talk to our kids that we talk to young people, I think a lot of this has to do with first turning inwards, and being honest with ourselves about just how many things were saying and doing that suggested discomfort and hatred towards our body. So how often are we talking about foods in a good or bad way? How often are we talking about shaming? Are we shaming ourselves for what we ate or didn't eat or saying we can't eat that or we shouldn't eat this, or we're not eating this thing, or we talk about our weight, or we talk about our size, our kids pick up on that our kids are paying attention to this. And what we know is one of the predominant risk factors for developing an eating disorder or severe disordered eating and body image distress has a lot to do with family culture and norms. So if you have somebody in your life that experienced an eating disorder or disordered eating severe dieting, you're at risk. And then in particular, depending on how those views and values were brought into your everyday culture. So thinking, do you talk about food in that way? Is it good or bad? Do you? Is it a treat as opposed to maybe a sometimes food? Can we shift the terminology that we use so that it's not making it, we're not giving food of value that it doesn't need to have? Because it's purely fuel for consumption and energy. When it comes to the body, then can we talk about our body in a way that is, I think flexible. So there are days that I have really bad body image days, and I have a little girl. And so or, at this point in time, she identifies as a female. So I am talking to her about my body and I'm talking to her about things. She's gotten curious, even just about, you know, having a really hard body image today. I'm, I'm feeling a little uncomfortable in our body. Today. I bought these showing up. And it's allowing me to be here with you, Tim, just feeling a little off. And that's okay. Some days, we just don't feel great in our body. And so how do you talk about that, and again, she's too so I talked to her about it very differently than a parent of a middle schooler or a high schooler. When you get when they get older. What I suggest is to talk to them about their experience in their body, what it what do they feel, what do they what do they notice in their body? How do we help them develop those cues? And how do we make it normal to have those experiences of not feeling great in their body without allowing that to define the experience of their body or to define their worth as a person because of that experience? Okay, and when you mentioned the food with good or bad, how do you communicate and you may not notice this quite at your daughter's age, but I have teenagers and the choices that are made are sometimes not always the best. And so how do you start to communicate to them about What, you know, how, how should we be talking about certain foods? I mean, I try not to say good and bad, but right, are you recommending? Well, let's, let's think about that. This is a great example. And this comes up a lot when I do in particular. So I've worked at hospitalization, levels of care for kids and early adolescence, early adulthood age. So a lot of the conversations around what are we wanting to say? So let's think about for your kids, what is what do you see as the problem for them? They're eating way too many carbs. Okay. And so give me an example of something that they pick regularly that you're like, Oh, this is I'm not okay with this, or this doesn't sit right with me. So it's honestly, it's not so much what they're eating. It's the amount that they're eating. So okay, you know, I try to keep things fairly clean in the house, because I do know, it starts with me as to what I bring in. But when they're constant, you know, they're telling me how hungry they are. And they're eating a pile of pretzels, rather than grabbing a bowl of fruit when you know, in the fruit is going bad. And the pretzels or, you know, whatever boxes of whatever I buying, you know, this stuff that I try to keep at a minimum, right is constantly there's nothing to eat mom. But there's fruit going bad everywhere. And they just want the processed foods in the cabinet. And is it more problematic to you that the food is going bad? Or that they're eating the pretzels, or that they're telling you that they have a problem. And the solution they're going towards isn't actually helping them with the problem, because you're also describing foods that are fast energy users rarely break, it breaks down, so they're not going to feel full? If that's what they're choosing to eat. So which which area? Do you find yourself feeling like the problem is for you, for me, because of my because of what I know, my issue is they're not eating the nutrient dense foods that they need to sustain them for the activities they're in. Right. So then what I would suggest, because and you said they're both teenagers, is that right? I have three to our teenagers via Yes, yeah. So and the teenagers are the ones that are grabbing the pretzels. Well, they all are. But yeah, 1614 and 10. Okay, yeah. So then I think that conversations become more about empowering choice, because you also know, like, let's just take your 16 year old, hypothetically, if they move out in a few years, they may grab pretzels all day long if they want to. And so what we want to be what I think a lot of the conversation is, is thinking about what is the takeaway lesson for them? And how do we empower them to apply the information. So again, this looks very different when you're talking to your 16 year old and your 10 year old, because the way they think about things is different right now. But I think the consistent message to them is, here's this problem. You're telling me that you're hungry all the time. It sounds like the solution that you've tried is to grab pretzels to grab chips to grab whatever these things are that they're grabbing. It seems like the problem is still standing that you're still hungry all the time. So it sounds like your solution isn't working. What could we try that looks different. And one thing and this is where you're and I know you have more knowledge than maybe some people might have in terms of energy and food and what we're getting out of our foods, but talking to them. And using that and saying something that I've learned over time is how to get the energy that I need while still allowing those foods to be a part of what I eat. So what would happen if we grabbed a small bowl of pretzels and some peanut butter and maybe some apple slices, I wonder what would happen if we tried that instead of just the bag of pretzels, let's see how that would work and allowing them to kind of try that out and to empower the solutions. Because what we're wanting to get out for them is you're telling me that you're hungry, and your body's telling you that it needs different and more fuel than what you're giving it. So if we just keep trying the same thing that is a slow erosion of listening to your body, and it is allowing you to kind of get depleted on the energy so you can't function. And especially if that keeps happening, you're not going to have the bandwidth to even think about different solutions because you're just going to be too low in energy. So in that instance, I think allowing those conversations and then part I mean, again, I'm very new to this in terms of like parenting realization, but I've learned a lot even as a therapist is most of it is just trying to plant the seeds and then having to walk away from the outcome of what what they turn into. And so I think shifting that and that conversation. How's that sitting with you as we talked about that? Oh, well, you must have seen my sigh Well, everything sounded great until you said sitting with what Ever choices? Yeah. I was like, yes. Okay. It's very difficult. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's the hard part is most of us didn't come to the information that we have, and want the things that we want, without going through our own struggles, whether that is severe trauma, stuck points in our lives, getting depression or feeling depressed, even if it's not clinical depression, living in that state of self loathing and shame. And so, when we get to that point of learning how to approach that more effectively, we want to alleviate that suffering for everyone. But in particular, for our kids, we don't want them to feel what we felt, right. And so and I did this a lot, I am a little bit, I think, probably hyper vigilant. I joke that as my daughter gets older, she's really like, Mom, do we have to talk about our emotions today? Can we can this just be like I screwed up, move on. But we talked so much about this, because I want for her to have the opportunity and the flexibility to do the things I didn't do, or didn't have the skills or didn't have the support to do and so yeah, I think that that is that piece of also not. If we get stuck to the outcome, then it ultimately becomes about us and not about our kids. And so realizing that you are doing a great job by trying to control what you can control, like you said, what you're bringing into the house, how you talk about food, but in reverse if we make it so that we're unintentionally shaming them for picking the pretzels versus empowering them to come up with a different solution. We're just taking what we experienced it and repackaging it in a different way. So loosening that allows them to see, alright, mom cares a lot and wants me to make these different choices because of this or wants to empower me to think about solutions that work for me long term, they might still pick the pretzels. Right. You know, the same as I present different solutions to Everly she still might pick the thing that I'm trying to help her get away from and then having to walk away with knowing is she safe? Is she is ultimately she Okay? And can I let go of feeling like I'm a bad parent, if what she chooses and how she explores the world looks this way. Okay. And when you talk about how you're speaking about food, does that then also play into you know, instead of saying good and bad, you always hear like, these are growth foods? Or would you even not go into that? I basically, I so I think what people find that works for them is great, there's always going to be a naysayer and a what would the opposite be of a naysayer for all aspects. So for a while there was like red and green foods and Weight Watchers made like a kid's app that was supposed to help with watching what you're eating. And you can see how there's good intention. Everything I think has a capacity to be unhelpful, or become rigid. So I think the biggest thing I've learned, and so in my, in my training, I've worked mostly with kind of the 1112 to 18 year olds when we're thinking about kids, okay? Again, I now have a very young kids, I'm having to kind of learn through experience and a lot of grace of what that looks like to apply it to a younger kid as well. But I think a lot of it is how do we talk about things as flexibly as possible. So one thing my daughter loves to watch Sesame Street and they have a couple sections on there where they talk about food. And one thing that they use that we just she liked it she resonated with it she picked up on it was a sometimes food. So we talked about like we sometimes have this food, and we sometimes have these foods and what does it look like to what are some foods we have every day? What are some foods that we have sometimes? What are some foods that we have during different occasions that mean different things for us or maybe are tied to these things. So rather than it being a treat on your birthday, it's something that becomes a tradition of something we have or something we do so it's still feel special, but in a different way. So I think finding what works for you and your family. The thing I like to avoid is if you get rigid in it with yourself so I have a client who is struggling with the fact she was like okay, as soon as my kid was born, clean eating, I'm going to make all their stuff I'm never going to buy GoGrid I'm never going to buy the prepackaged snacks never gonna do this. And last year, Portland and a lot of Oregon got hit with a very severe ice storm and there was like hundreds of 1000s of people without power for over a week as most of us we're doing what we could navigating this to the best of our abilities. Thankfully it was cold out so some stuff stayed okay outside but you're working with what you got. Right so your plan goes out the window so she's like, alright, and I had to buy a yogurt and I had to do this the problem wasn't that her kid had a yogurt. The problem was that she carried shame for months about not following through on, this is what I'm going to do. So I think, however we talk about food, we have to really believe it, rather than just trying to sell our kids on something different. And so, you know, I went in my eating disorder, I didn't eat certain foods that were foods that were no foods, don't eat them. My eating disorder was very focused on calories. everybody shows up in a very different way. But it was very calorie driven. And so when I, when we first started making things like waffles or stuff like that, I could feel it come up. It's like, how do you talk about this? And I'm 10 years in recovery, and I still have these thoughts. Well, I had to talk to her about waffles are so good, they're really, really tasty, we're gonna have waffles, and we're going to give our belly all sorts of goodness. So we get this from the waffles and kind of breaking down what kind of nutrients she gets, then we're gonna have some veggies and we get this from our veggies. And what we talk about is how do we give our belly everything it needs, so that it can help our body do all the things it wants? But yeah, talking about it in a way where I say sometimes food or, you know, what is what does healthy mean? Or what is a certain type of food mean? I really have to make sure that I believe it, as opposed to just selling her on it, too. Yeah, well, it does. It starts with us in regards to them, all of that. And you had mentioned earlier on about in regards to going back to self image with you and how you felt about yourself with your daughter. Now that you have a daughter, do you notice how you have to change how you speak about yourself? I'm just thinking of like, when you mentioned your hair was different than your friends and I have caught myself with my daughter. Um, same way in the in regards to my hair. My hair was always this weird, wavy, it wasn't, you know, it's not straight, and it's not curly. It's that in between. And I've caught myself making comments, not ugly to her just like, Oh, your hair is like mommy's hair. But then I may have also said before, something about how I don't like certain things with my hair, you know? So. I mean, you know, obviously, I would never mean to say something negative about my daughter's hair. I don't mean anything like that. But how do you keep? How do you work through your own issues? And how you might be saying things to your children? Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of it has to do with, again, if we go back to kind of our original question, the idea of self love and self care as a practice, I think recognizing and being kind to ourselves on the days that we just don't get it right. So I have certain beliefs about how I want to raise my daughter, I've definitely dropped the F bomb a couple of days ago in front of her and I made it come and I used to swear a lot. And I made a commitment not to swear in front of her at all right? And it came out and I'm like, oh, that's rough. And then you have to go, and I'm human. And she didn't even notice it. But it was this idea of even if she did, it's okay. Right. So I think I think one thing that happens is, in particular, for parents and caregivers, we put so much pressure on ourselves, to get everything right. And we have this very specific way that we want to approach things. And we forget to allow that flexibility of the human experience. And again, we're emotional beings, we're not, we're not logic beings, we want to be if we could be in our head all the time, that's where most people want to live. And that's why we have such a difficult time engaging, we disconnect from the emotions, and sometimes our emotions are going to show up and they're going to take over and let's just say for example, you had a day where, you know, maybe you had something go wrong with a podcast recording and you had a crappy email that came out that you were dealing with this, like all these things layered up, and then you looked in the mirror, your hair just, for whatever reason, felt unsettling in that moment, and it came out. And rather than judging yourself for it, I think just showing up with kindness and saying who I shame was in the driver's seat right there. And then what I do, because I still say things every once in a while, right is then I talk about that in front of her. And that's where my joke comes in. And she's probably like, Mom, we don't have to process this. But when I do catch it, I'll pause and I'll explain to her why what I said doesn't sit right with me. And what what I want to take out of that or what I meant in what I said and so I think that's a really helpful part. I think the other thing is realizing we could we could never say anything negative. You cannot control the hundreds of 1000s of other interactions she's going to have anyways or that he's going to have or They are going to have so where are kids, they're going to experience the world in its complexity. So I think the best thing is to not try to be perfect, but just to allow imperfection to be something that is talked about openly without it being a shame based thing, right? And also, everyone's perception of thing right are different. And she may, you know, your child may not even, that may be something that doesn't even bother them. But it bothers you because you have this preconceived notion or whatever. Right? Yeah. Right. And, and I think that's the thing is, and this comes up now, I mean, especially we're thinking about, it's not just how do we raise our kids to love their bodies, it's also thinking about, they don't, I mean, especially to, my daughter doesn't have the ability to tell me how she identifies in her body. I don't know how she feels in her body. And we see this as kids get older. And this particularly comes up when we think about gender and Presentation of Self, even within gender presentation, but also just presentation of the self in general, how do we want to show up? How do we feel? How do we like our body to be? How does our body serve and work for us? So I think sometimes also not putting our view and our responses based on our experience of the world and our interpretation of the world, but also allowing that to be something too. So when I think about stuff with her, what I realize is, I'm gonna screw up all the time, right? Because for right now, you know, we're talking to her and using she her pronouns, and everything that we've done is to try to condition a very neutral approach to her body and how she views things. Well, what if she comes out very strongly doesn't like that, that's the way that we approach it, she actually really strongly identifies and wants her body to be talked about in a certain way. And so I also think best intention doesn't always align with the outcome we expected to be either. So again, that's where I think that flexible grace and just saying, How can we be as neutral and process oriented as possible today, show up with whatever you can today, do the best that you can take from it what you can to learn to be better, stronger, you know, wiser, whatever it is tomorrow? And then let the rest go? And how do we control all of that when it goes beyond? Us? We're talking family members, like how how do we work through that and navigate it with them? Is that something you have to set aside time to communicate with them? Or how do you usually recommend that I think a lot of this comes to, again, stage of parenthood, so the age of your child, because obviously if you are pregnant, or have a young kid or you're adopting and they're a young child, some of the conversations can be had right away, if you have certain ideals or things that you want. It doesn't mean the conversations are one and done. But what that looks like to have those conversations might be different than having a 14 1516 year old that is maybe struggling with some body image distress and trying to help Grandma understand that when you make comments about how their body looks that's really triggering, versus again, just, I want to get away from this for our household in general. And I've got kids all over the board and no one's struggling necessarily, but I want to change it. So I think context depends on it for people. I think the biggest thing comes back to controlling what you can control and and I can send you these, you can put them in the notes. So people have them because I know for some people having the written down things to say can be helpful. There's kind of a few I think about pocket phrases. So things that I can use in the moment to communicate my needs, or my daughter's needs. Or in this case, we're thinking about anybody in their kids or their family's needs in a way that isn't unintentionally shaming the other person, but inviting them to be a support for what you're trying to do. And that's really hard. Because, you know, let's pretend it's the same family member, everybody's got one or a friend or somebody that we know is going to say something, whether it's their own diet, talk their own body shaming, they're going to comment on what your kid puts on their plate, the biggest things that come up for parents is they'll comment on how much their kid is eating? Or how skinny their kid is, that's a big one that comes up or making comments about how much they're eating in relation to like, should they eating that like those, like under the table comments that you just, you're like, in what realm of reality? Does that feel helpful, but it does to them for whatever way, right? So one of the things that I really like to say or kind of the the model that I use is when you talk about x. So when you comment about how much that so and so puts on their plate, it sends the message that there's a right amount to put on their plate or that what they've put on their plate isn't correct. I know you care about them and you want to support us in raising our kids to be as blank as possible. Let's say you You know, maybe it's food neutral, or its body positive, or whatever the terminology is for your family? Would you mind trying not to make those comments as a way to support us in doing that? And they might say, Sure, great, and then do it again, the next time you see them. So it's sometimes the unintentional not listening to the boundary. And then sometimes they might just say no, or push back and say, That's dumb, or, you know, whatever, we just kind of dismiss it. I think take the person in the context, into account and again, recognize what's in your control. I always want to approach it as I want to know that it's in my control, to be an advocate, for Everly to have the best possible experience of how she shows up in the world. It's not in my control to make everybody say things the way I wish they would say them. And so when, you know, I have family members who make a lot of comments about their own appearance, and that's really bothersome to me, and I've given them feedback, 510 15 times the saying, oh, okay, and I'll follow up now by saying what something positive about your body or what something this way, and I'll model it that way, but I've had to accept, they're probably always going to make these comments. And that's okay. Right. A couple other things that you could say is, you could say something like, you know, maybe I've made a commitment to not talk about weight, or food or bodies with my kids, would you? I would really appreciate if you didn't do that as well, when you're around us? Or would you be able to support us in that, and that's a big thing I think about is would you be able to support us doing blank. So it's this ask, it's the invitation, I also think it's really helpful to include something like I know you care about. So and so you know, I know that you care about Susan, and it's really important to you that she has the best life possible. One of the ways that we want to do that is this, would you be able to support us in that process. And that really helps them reconnect to not getting defensive, like they did something bad, but thinking about learning how to be a better support for this individual. Okay. And one more question for you. In regards to this body image, I noticed that, you know, it's usually having to do with a certain body image, but I'm, I'm noticing, and I don't know if it's a concern, you know, my husband and I are both healthy fitness, you know, I'm in the fitness field. My husband works out every day. And we're noticing our son is you know, he's in football, he's doing weightlifting, he is very slender. So he's seeing all of his muscles, is there a concern of it going the other way to where it could be a dangerous thing as well, meaning more so like, because your son is in a slender body? Because your son is seeing these things? There could be kind of, is there a way that it can go too far? Yeah, well, yeah. And I think I mean, I, I have heard where these kids now have gotten to where, you know, they have to have the six pack abs they have to have, yeah. So how do you work with them? Because what he's doing, it's very all it's all positive. So how do we kind of rein him in to help him? Not get too focused on that? Yeah, I think everything, again, is sort of what's the balance? And so to answer your question, yes, it definitely can go to an extreme. In particular, what we see is, depending upon how somebody identifies, if you are socialized female, oftentimes, appearance in terms of weight, and fat content on the body is where the focus gets placed, because of how we are conditioned to view our body. And we're also conditioned to see our bodies as sort of service entities and to make ourselves smaller. And so there's a lot of subliminal messaging for women in our country, in our culture, that suggests being in a smaller body doesn't just look better, but is better all around. So the assumptions that are made about bodies and different sizes, for people that are socialized, male, their bodies are conditioned to be about acts of doing so muscle tone, appearance, size, things like that become more important. I think that's where that culture of you know, the the six pack abs, so looking a certain way is kind of sought after. Again, I think, rather than focusing on, you know, saying something like, it's really great that you are using your muscles and helping them get stronger. It would also be really great to do that. And your body might not always show that or there might be people whose bodies don't show their abs maybe as obviously as yours do that are doing healthy things that are equally valuable bodies, things like that. So there's a conversation, right, but I think kind of again, you're asking more specifically within the family. What do you pay attention to? How do you notice it again, I just think about balance. It's like sleep is a really healthy thing. We can sleep too much we can sleep too little, you know, let's use even just the example of an apples. It's one thing I've used, I talk about things like apples are really great food. If I only ever ate apples, it's not giving my body everything that it needs. And that would be super uncomfortable, right? And so what does it look like to talk about in moderation, as opposed to kind of like over emphasis on something, and that could be the switch from somebody who's concerned, their kid is playing video games too much, or in front of a computer too much. taking that away isn't helpful. Helping them understand how to integrate time into doing these activities, while also doing other things is helpful for your son, if it was like, yeah, he's not hanging out with his friends, or the only time he hangs out with his friends who's going to the gym, or suddenly he's, you know, not wanting to eat certain foods or, you know, I'm going to use the pretzels example, again, cuz he used it, suddenly, he's not wanting pretzels, or he wants a certain kind, or he's only eating this, you just start to notice it and pay attention. What I think is, the other thing we all have to accept is that every person on this planet has some form of disordered eating and body image to distress, that's just normal, okay, there is no perfect way to exist, we're all going to have times where we eat a little bit more or a little bit less, or we're changing the way we eat, because we're judging our body or we need it to look a certain way. Or we just feel like crap in our bodies. And that's okay. And so normalizing that, and then realizing, again, your, your goal with him is, it sounds like fitness is an important part of your life. And that's really cool, because we share in that. And for you and your husband, you've had to learn what that looks like in balance with everything else. Right? So saying, Yes, something that, you know, Dad and I have learned is this. And this is kind of how we've balanced it. So we get the time to do this. We'll also do any other things. How do you balance that and make sure you still have time with your friends time for these other fun things time for activities that aren't movement driven? Back? Right. Okay, perfect. That's great. Thank you so much for that, because I think we get stuck in one aspect. But I do think that there's there's two sides. And I think, you know, I see it with some clients who get just to get overly into, you know, the fitness and like you said, there that's that becomes everything that they're doing, and they're not then focusing on it. And I don't mean specifically for any of my current clients, but you know that it becomes excessive. So yeah, excessive, good, excessive. Well, here I went with the good and the bad, but you know what I mean? Like, it's, there is good and bad on both sides, so to speak. Yeah. There, you can do much of anything like the apple. Right? Yes. And it's, I think it comes back to empowering, again, empowering choice and understanding intention. So what is the intention? So there are some times where people, I know I have a client, and it's really hard to not always have the eating disorder lens on as a therapist, but not every person has an eating disorder, just because they're engaging in certain activities. So one of the conversations I've had with somebody is their times that they work out, that is tied to a form of punishment of the body or shaming of the body, I ate something and I'm feeling really crappy, and I, you know, I have to work out an extra workout because I shouldn't have eaten this burger, I shouldn't have done this thing. Well, that's reinforcing a belief that that food was bad, and that your body's not okay. And that you're that you don't trust that your body knows what to do with that food. That's the biggest thing. That's that erosion of trust with the body, right, you're trying to come in and control it. Now, by doing these things to make it better. That's a very different intention than maybe somebody who is learning how to use movement as a form of balancing anxiety. And they're in a period where they are having a ton of anxiety. And maybe they did two or three short bursts of yoga or a bike workout or something during the day because they had a really hard day. And that was the skill that they've had accessible to them in that moment to use. But you could look at both people and say you worked out three times today, that's bad. Or you could say you worked out three times today. Tell me more about what's going on with that. Or, you know, you missed a day at the gym, and you're feeling really bad about that. Tell me why. Versus just assuming, you know, it's x, y or z or, you know, whatever that might that kind of the narrative is that we put on it. Right? Yeah. Yeah, that's excellent. And always asking the why I think that's very important in regards to that. Alright. Well, thank you. I want to respect your time. Where can we find you? And how can people work with you? i I'll send all of this we can post it down below too. I think the best way to connect with me is to send me an email directly. Just reach out if you have questions, want to talk about how we could work together how I could support you. I don't do any social media anymore. It's a really positive change I made for myself. So the only way to kind of get regular updates from me is to sign up for my email list. Okay, people, I'll put the link for that in there for you. And people can get content there that I don't share anywhere else. It's just twice a month. So it's not like a daily email trying to sell you on something. It's purely information sharing. Okay. And yeah, I think just taking some time to look at my website and getting a feel for me and my style and seeing if I'm the right fit. I think the most important thing, I'm sure you see this all the time, when you talk to your clients as well is, I know what I'm talking about. But that's less important than you connecting to and feeling like you can work with me to handle these hard things, because we could Google most of the information that we're talking about right now. But it's about finding somebody that you trust and want to be open with. So starting there, seeing how it feels. And then yeah, reaching out and connecting with me, like I said, I'm launching a program in January 2023, that I'm really excited about. And so I'll have some information available for that soon for people to see if maybe that's kind of the next step in that internal reframing and rewriting process. Okay, perfect. Thank you so much. Is there anything that you want to make sure the listeners know, before you leave? I think maybe just coming back to if you're taking this, there's a lot that we covered, obviously, we could have talked about this for another three or four hours and still not even tap it to the surface. Right. So I think, maybe closing it with more. So the mantra that I've established for myself is to have flexible grace in a relentless pursuit for living my best life or showing up in the way that I want. And so being kind to ourselves, that is the epitome of how we deal with shame is to show up with kindness and openness, while still pursuing and still driving and still being open to that and seeing this entire thing as a process. And I think the last thing I'll say is I had a therapist who I was working with, she was actually my supervisor for a period of time. And I was really worried about something that I said, and I said, What if I triggered them to do this? And what if this happens, and they go home, and you know, they they have a hard time following their meal plan or whatever, I forget exactly what it was. And she said, I think you have to remember that you're not that important. And I don't mean this to say that his parents and caregivers were not important, right. But when we hyper fixate on one thing that we said, we take ourselves out of experiencing what it means to be in a relationship with our kids and with a relationship with ourselves. And so again, just realizing we're gonna screw up. You have to allow that to happen and realize that the more important thing is that we show up in our values, and we're consistently there as opposed to getting it right every time. That's, that's so great. Thank you so much for that, that. I would definitely say having a teenager makes you realize how unimportant and that's okay, and then you go okay, so maybe the pretzels discussion isn't gonna come from me, is there somebody else that's, you know, that we can lean on like, I use Sesame Street, I'm sure your son maybe doesn't want to hear from Sesame Street, but there might be someone right? And then we go okay, so maybe that's how I show up consistently and with what they need. Rather than assuming that it has to all be on me and then shaming myself if it doesn't work out the way I feel like it should. Thank you for taking time out of your day to listen to our podcast. I hope you found this information valuable and hope that you are able to immediately use some of the information that was provided. Make sure to check out the show notes for all the links that we discussed today. I also wanted to let you know that if you are a mom who is wanting to begin to start making healthier choices, but are not sure where to start, or don't feel like you have a lot of time, I want to let you know that I offer a five day challenge that is free for you to get started on making small changes each day. It provides you with a quick five minute movement or workout routine, along with a five day meal plan with family friendly meals you will enjoy and a tip that will help you to find ways to move and live healthier. Just head to form fit naples.com backslash fit in the number five to sign up. Again, that information will be in our show notes. So just head there, click on that link and you'll be able to get started with the five day challenge immediately. Now make sure to go out and enjoy your day while practicing small healthy choices that will make lasting changes