Ep: 45 The Benefits of Being Outside in Nature with Sandi of the Eco Happiness Project

Today I had the pleasure of speaking with Sandi of The Eco Happiness Project; she is here to speak with us about why you may want to consider getting out in nature, the benefits of spending more time in nature, and how we can create more nature habits as a family.  I hope you enjoy!

The topics we discuss:
-How engaging with nature can help children feel happier and calmer.
-What is ecohappiness?
-Benefits of nature on children's mental health.
-Examples of calming nature activities for kids.
-How to choose the best nature activities for your family to build a positive nature habit.
-How to overcome barriers to nature time, such as technology.

You can find Sandi at www.ecohappinessproject.com to receive more information about the books she has written, to take the free nature habit quiz, and to find lots of blog posts and articles.

On social media at:
 www.facebook.com/getecohappiness
www.instagram.com/getecohappiness

National Geographic Citizen Science
There's No Such Thing as Bad Weather the Book

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Transcript

Unknown: 0:09

Welcome to raising healthy humans, where you as a busy mom can come each week to find information on health and wellness for your family. Enjoy experts discussing tips to help raise children through each phase of life. Gather current information on nutrition and wellness. And listen to Courtney, a personal trainer and founder of form fit to provide you with movement and posture tips along the way. It's our goal to help provide you with the information you need to help raise healthy humans. Today, I had the pleasure of speaking with Sandy of the Eco Happiness Project, she is here to speak with us about why you may want to consider getting out in nature, the benefits of spending more time in nature, and how we can create more nature habits as a family. I hope you enjoy Hi, everyone. So my name is Sandy Schwartz, I'm based down here in Florida, although I grew up in New Jersey, and my story actually starts in New Jersey, which is kind of funny because if you think back to the 80s, in New Jersey, there was a lot about pollution. I remember the pipe intermix washing off on the Jersey Shore from Billy Joel's on, well, I'm a Jersey girl. And when I was in 10th grade, I cleaned up a local polluted river in my environmental high school group called Nature defense. And that was really that sparked my interest in saving the planet, which so I went on to college and I studied the environment, I thought I was gonna be like a water rights lawyer out west. But as many people know, like life kind of takes twists and turns. And I ended up more focused on science communications. And I worked at the Environmental Protection Agency and the National Academy of Sciences and ad consults environmental consulting firm, working on the Energy Star program, which is that sticker of energy efficiency on your appliances. So I really was very involved in, in public understanding of science. And, and that was my thing for a while. And then while that was all happening, I was also just like a stressed out anxious kid. And then also it all kind of, you know, hit, you know, big when I went through infertility, and then I had a very difficult first pregnancy, I had preterm labor. And then I recognized later on that I had postpartum anxiety, okay, you hear a lot about postpartum depression. Me I was so just like on edge and shaky, and, you know, it was for last a long time. And that was really when I had my first like, panic attack, you know, in that sort of period of being a new mom. And I think a lot of moms probably have had these experiences, they don't even recognize what's going on. It's, you know, with all the hormones it you know, changes as well takes turmoil on you. So then I started searching for how can I, you know, feel better? That wasn't just popping pills. And it all brought me back to the concept of positive psychology. Okay, yeah. And that's really looking like instead of sitting in, you know, talking about your problems all the time, you really focusing on what can you do that's positive, such as mindfulness, gratitude, practice, feeling the all such as all as nature, you know, all is like this amazing emotion that I love to talk about, um, and also like giving back to your communities, a big one volunteers. And so I started really digging into that and really focusing on those positive components to feel better. And then I came back to my roots, as I like to say, and decided to really focus on positive psychology from the nature perspective. And that's how eco happiness was born. Excellent. And eco happiness is a What all do you have within eco happiness, a website, a book that you have written as well? Yeah, and it's sort of this this term I, I saw once but I kind of made up and it's really about you know, feeling better, feeling happier and calmer. So really managing mental health through nature connection. Okay. And so then I, I created a eco Happiness Project. I had originally had another blog that was called Happy science mom. Okay, six years. And that was much broader. And that's where all these different components of positive psychology were in. But I found that I was writing so much about nature. I said, I'm going to take the leap, and I'm going to rebrand. So eco happy this project was born. And yes, I have a parenting book coming out. Also a children's book, okay. Called skies search for eco happiness. So that's been fun to work on. And the website that has articles about you know, a freelance writer, and then also the blog post. So there's tons of information on there for people to peruse. Okay. And when you're thinking about eco happiness, this is obviously for not just the mom, but the children as well. What do you notice are the benefits of getting outside in the fresh air and just getting outside? Sure. Well, the first thing I guess, before we get into benefits is what have been the issues and the concerns that have led to this point, okay, we'll finally have the light bulb and saying maybe we should go outside more. And maybe you've heard of Richard loove. He's sort of the Guru. He coined the term nature deficit disorder, out 20 or so years ago. And he's, he's an author, and journalist as well. He's actually kind of my personal like, mentor, because when you when you decide to write a book, you're kind of like, well, do I have to have, you know, a million letters after my name. And then I saw that someone like Richard Liu, who's also a journalist, he's been able to write numerous books, and he he has an entire organization called Children in Nature Network that I'm a member of, and it focuses specifically on this concern that children have not, you know, they're missing out on all the benefits of nature, and the issues it's caused, you know, and of course, a lot of it's due to screen time. But also our fears that have happened as moms and hey, I'm guilty of that, you know, you're worried about your kids in the front yard, because you know, someone gonna snatch them, you know, you don't let them play outside like we did. If you kids grew up as an 80s. Child. Yeah, that's a big thing. Yeah. And it actually seemed to switch then, because I remember playing outside for hours. And then there were some issues that had occurred that the parents started to be like, oh, let's like keep them in the backyard. And then, yeah, so it's even worse and worse with us. But not being outside can cause you know, attention issues, focus issues, physical issues, obesity, you know, the list goes on and on. And the positives. It's just like, you know, it's innate, it's, it's who we are, that we just feel better outside, the fresh air, the sunshine, the colors, there's a lot of components of nature that we always kind of knew, like, hey, going to the beach would be relaxing. You know, a lot of people choose the ocean for for vacation. But the cool part, and this is why I'm really excited about being involved in this area now is that there's so much research to back it up, there's like hundreds, if not 1000s, of studies, that that show that not only do we feel better, but cortisol levels drop as well, when we spend time in nature. So that's, you know, the stress hormone going down and, and heart rates and blood pressure. So it really is amazing. And, you know, it's important for our kids to get the break. They need a nature break. Yeah. Do you think there's like a specific time that you need to spend outside to start receiving some of these benefits? Or is anything better than nothing? Very good question. So in 2019, there was a groundbreaking study that really shifted the thinking on this. It was published in Scientific Reports. And it found that spending at least 120 minutes per week in nature is associated with good health and well being so that's about 20 minutes a day. And it's kind of like any other anything else that it's better to kind of, you know, do it consistently like they say with mindfulness, that if you if you only meditate, you know, you if you meditate for five hours, one day a month, it's not actually as beneficial as five or 10 minutes a day. So, you know, I call it building a nature habit. You know, I focus a lot on that is trying to just look at opportunities in our daily routine to have some more time in nature. You know, that may look like hey, let's walk to school or bike to school or do homework outside or have dinner outside or For all of you in the cold weather, you know, windows are great to, you know, setting up, you know, having the meal right by the window and being mindful of it saying, hey, look outside, look at the beautiful snow, it's really a lot about just tuning in to our surroundings. And that can make a huge difference. Okay, that's one thing that I was thinking, as you were speaking, because I've heard people say like, even if you can't get outside, go look out your window, do you feel that that is a similar benefit, just being able to look outside? Yeah, they've done some really neat studies with for example, so I talk a lot about green exercise, and that's really like, exercise outside. But then they would do it, they would, you know, put the treadmill, you know, it has someone running and then they would have someone treadmill at a big, you know, giant window. And then they might have the third option where you're, like, you know, watching on a screen, like a virtual reality type of thing. And every of those options has a benefit. Anytime you're looking at nature. So even, you know, there's studies to about like, looking at a plant inside or looking at a beautiful painting of nature, there's a big difference than looking at, you know, a photograph or a painting of nature versus of a building. You know, there's still this reaction. But of course, the more immersed you can be in nature, you know, they, they found, you know, if you go out into the woods, and you're completely detached, it's about three days where you are completely and totally, like, at the height of the benefit. But for for all of us busy moms, you know, it's just really again, like adding a little bit into the day. Okay, yes, a little bit can help. And I, the virtual reality, research is really cool. You know, I one time did this virtual reality experience with my family where we were like, under the ocean. And it's like, you could reach out and feel, you know, try to touch the Well, that was going by, it was really, it was cool. So they're trying to bring that as an option. If you you know, it's kind of an interesting topic and can be controversial. But yeah, but it's still better. It's still something. Okay. But that, oh, that's so immersed with technology that just feels wrong. Yeah, well, I do like AI. Technology is very complicated issue. Yeah, the way I like to say it, on one hand, we need our tech breaks. On the other hand, tech can be a bridge to engaging our kids into nature. There's a lot of ways that we can use it to get our kids interested. Yes, I would say the whole Pokemon thing that occurred that Pokemon Go, that was a huge thing. And it got people outside now, it became an issue when they were staring at their phones and walking across the street. But like, that was a great option for them to get more children outside and looking for these little characters and stuff. Yeah, wasn't that such a fad? Yeah. Even went? Well. The other. The other thing I think is great is it's called Citizen Science. Okay. And so this is, you know, pokemons one thing because it's a game, and you're right there staring on the phone, right? Citizen science is, there's like apps, and there's different programs, and you just Google it, it's done through like, research centers, that library, I mean, at that universities, or the government, and you download like an app, and then you're tasked with, for example, going into your neighborhood and counting the number of butterflies, you see, or, you know, when certain things called bud, Bud burst is one of them. And you'll like count, I think in the springtime, like what flowers are blooming in different areas. All they collect all this data. And so it gives kids or any, any ages, the opportunity to participate in the scientific process, but you're also, you know, you're so it's like, you might go out and take pictures of what you're seeing. And so I'm just, it's really, it's really fun. And it gets kids outside with a purpose. Learning. I did did it with my kids not so long ago. And they were just like, intrigued by everything they were seeing, you know, and I'm like, Oh, I you know, this is really great. So that that, to me is a very good example of how you can bridge that gap between tech and nature. Right? Yeah. And that's like a scavenger hunt for them, which I mean, children love to do these scavenger hunts. So that sounds really interesting. I'm going to make sure to have that information in the show notes as well. So I'm curious to know like, they talk about grounding, where you're getting your feet in nature. How can you speak into that at all? Is there information, you know, like science behind that? So funny, that seems to be a very popular topic these days. I did look at that. That was in my, my mindfulness chapter research, okay. And I had never done it. But during when the pandemic started, I challenged myself to do something nature related for 100 days straight while thinking that, Oh, this thing is only going to last two weeks. I guess that was the point when we knew it was gonna last a little longer than two weeks, but I can't believe that 100 Days came and went so quickly. And here we still are, yeah. Um, so I was really, you know, there were days when, what am I going to do today. And so I did my daughter and I went in the backyard and took off her shoes, shoes and socks and did some earthing. And it's just like a meditative process, there is some science behind this concept that you're like, getting the positive energy and charges from the grounds from the earth. And it can be done on grass, soil or sand. Okay, um, you know, it's not the most scientifically backed process at this point, they're still doing research. But if you think about it, you know, being and I know, both of us are in Florida, so we've been to the beach lots, but you know, going to the beach, and standing there and feeling that warm sand on your, the soles of your feet is just such a, you know, an amazing, refreshing experience. So there's something going on. And so they do people who are advocates for this, say like, you should be doing it, like 30 minutes a day. Okay. Well, in when you mentioned that, I was thinking to myself, it may be just the whole experience, because our senses become heightened. Whether you're at the beach, you're hearing the waves break on the shore, your feet are in the warm sand, like that all is a whole sensory, calming, sensory experience. And then even in like a forest, if you were to have your feet on the soil of, you know, the forest, you would then have maybe a different experience of hearing the wind blowing through the trees and the rustling sounds, and maybe some movement and just the smells the smells of on the beach and the smells in the forest, there's a definitely a different component for being out in nature, very natural smells, rather than these artificial things that we experience in our homes and buildings and such. So yeah, and like, you know, the cool grass on Your Feet has a different experience than the warm sand. There's also some really great information about a bacteria in soil. Uh huh. that benefits us that we get from both breathing in and then also touching. And, you know, that has been shown to reduce stress and anxiety and even the scientists are working on potentially, you know, creating like a pill based on this bacteria. From really? Yeah, well, I mean, you're eating it anyway. You're ingesting and a lot of times in your food, right? Oh, I think it's kind of cool. If they can come up with it. They've done a lot of experiments with mice and how it has, like, just get totally chilled out by it. So right. The Earth has lots of natural healing. Yes, yes. Yes. Okay. So, if we are thinking about getting outside, and we're like, Okay, what was the first steps? You've given us an activity where we can bring tech in, but do you have other ideas for us as to things that we can do with our children outside? Yes, I have an entire book filled with. I could go on and on. But what I like to say is start with what you guys, your, your child, your children, your family, you whatever, what you already love, know and love. Because a lot of people are intimidated by this concept of connecting to nature, you know, they think it just means camping and hiking and boating and intense, you know, activities when I you know, I'm really letting people know actually it's not there's so much you can do and feel so much better. So start with what you love. And I actually have a free quiz on my website, called the nature habit quiz. And it's geared for like a parent to take for their child, but I enjoy taking it as well, you know, adults do, and ask questions like, you know, what's your child's favorite kind of birthday party, what's you know, their favorite class in school? And then I have five categories, and then you'll, you'll get an email that kind of puts them in a category. And then you have a list of ideas. So, yeah, so you know, is your kid already into art? You know, do they already love to paint? What are they painting and drawing? Are they doing cartoon characters? Okay, great. Well, maybe take them outside and say, Hey, why don't you put that cartoon character in the set a natural setting, you know, encourage them to paint draw, you know, create with what they're seeing in nature. Um, because being there, and that whole concept of mindfulness, you know, creative arts, itself is a mindful activity that has a lot of benefits. It's a positive distraction. And so when you add the nature component to it, it's like, you know, double, double benefit. So, you know, again, start with what they love, are they already into sports, you know, they win the basketball team, and they're playing inside a lot, well, maybe you can get them playing basketball outside or pick another sport that that tends to be done outside and set inside. Kids who, you know, yoga, you know, instead of doing yoga inside, go outside, do your tree pose, staring at a tree, you know, there's tons of great animal poses. You know, so there's, there's so much that you can do the science, you know, go back again, if you have a kid who really loves science experiments, well, get them doing science experiments for nature, we have a lot of environmental problems to solve. So, you know, science fairs at schools love environmental projects, right? There's just, you know, it's endless, right. But But yeah, I do think instead of like one day saying, your family, we're going hiking on a mountain. And they're like, what, I just want to play my video game, you got to maybe say, Hey, let's go to Pokemon, because now it's video game, but it's outside. Right? Slowly, slowly introduce activities. Okay. And that leads me to my next thought, because I feel like when my children were younger, so my children are now older, 1614 intend, when they were younger, it was much easier for me to have them do things because they were so into wanting to know about everything. So we'd go outside, and we'd have picnics or stare at the clouds and do fun, things like that. But as they get older, they're not as excited about that kind of learning. So do you have recommendations for those of us with older kids? Like how can you did say, I mean, with the sports and things like that, but can you think of is there anything else? One is that app geared to older kids as well, that you had mentioned the citizen? What was that? Well, citizen science is a general term. There's if you Google it, there'll be lots of different projects. Okay. Yes, yeah, they're for all you know, different ages and levels. And even a lot of them you need the parent to guide the younger children, but okay, especially high schoolers, like they could use it for school projects. Okay. Okay. And then other ideas. Do you have any other ideas for the older children? Definitely. And I also have a 13 year old, so okay, I get it. Yeah. And, and so, in some ways, it's easier, because now he knows, like, when he needs outside time, he just goes and plays basketball. He's like, bye, I'm gonna play basketball. You know, it's like, okay, I don't have to, like, be there, right? Watch anymore. True. Um, so there's a lot more freedom. But yes, a lot of schools do require volunteer hours, community service hours. So, I did include an entire chapter on environmental volunteering, the whole concept of what can you do, that's volunteer work connecting to nature. And so that and, you know, there's not a lot out there, like when kids need to, you know, you know, meet the requirement. A lot of times it's like, where do they begin? And, you know, for my research, I was looking for all these Bill, what books are out there about kids and volunteer projects? And yeah, there's there's not a lot so I wanted to offer that as an option. There's farms if you live near local farms that need help. There's community gardens, there's simply you know, like walking a, you know, a neighbor, an elderly or, you know, Ill neighbor's dog You know, doing it, instead of being like, Hey, I'm a pet Walker and want to get paid, you know, doing it as a community service, there's volunteering with your pet, there's a whole system for that in place for people, you know, you have to be trained to do that. But there's a lot of options. You know, that where kids teens can go and do that, and, you know, just check with age requirements, or, you know, sometimes you have to do it with them, but usually, by 16, they can do it on their own. Right, so, so I think that's a really great opportunity, you know, when they're mature enough to really, you know, benefit from that entire experience. Um, and the other thing is, like, I really think older kids, well, my kids go to overnight camp, and that is amazing, any kind of camp experience is incredible and hugely beneficial for for them in so many ways, but linked to nature, like it challenges them to do, you know, things out of the box, that you know, like a ropes course, and canoeing and all these things that they may not have been exposed to. So I do recommend, there are scholarships available to the camp. So you know, don't think that, you know, there's if there's a financial constraint, there's still options. And even if it's just for like, a week, you know, one week in the summer, or during winter break, or spring break, like, I really think parents should consider that as an option. But then also, like, kids, like, not all kids, but a lot of teens want to be challenged, or they want to, you know, do something exciting and thrilling. And so there's a lot of activities, you could say, hey, let's get a group of your friends together. And you know, let's get in the car and drive an hour and go do X, you know, again, it could be canoeing, hiking, mountain biking, surfing, you know, anything that's more of this adventure area, that I think that that the older kids would be more interested in. And I remember going snowboarding in Pennsylvania as a kid that that was, that was thrilling. That was a long time. But it was cool, actually like snowboarding better than skiing, because you have like more control. But I think that's a way to intrigue the older kids. Okay. And when you mentioned the cold air, I'm wondering, those of us or those people that might be listening that are in areas that are colder? Do you recommend, do you have recommendations for them as well as to what they can do? Obviously snowboarding and skiing and things like that. But that can get very expensive as well? Is there are there things that you recommend that they can do in the winter time specifically? Well, this is not my area of expertise, because I did grow up in New Jersey, but I was always a baby about the cold. And now I'm in Florida, so I don't there are but there are lots of people who are constantly writing about this. And okay, and and I do address, you know, there are some clear barriers to outside time, which includes weather, and it can be too hot, it can be too wet, it can be too cold. And the bottom line is, you know, dress appropriately. And, you know, you can still, you know, just dress heavy and go for a walk. You know, I think there's nothing more special than then a winter walk on the beach, right? Where it's like deserted. And, you know, you're able to see it from a different perspective. So yeah, you know, you're not gonna go out in a dangerous situation, but, but people do need to kind of, I think challenge themselves, get a little bit of a harder shell and just like, you know, try that, um, but other activities during the winter, you know, again, you can if, if you have, let's say, an indoor cycle or a treadmill inside, you know, try to put it in your window where you're facing the window, because it is just going to make your life so much better. And, you know, I remember really struggling with seasonal affective disorder sad, you know, growing up Yeah. And so it's the light is also very important to make sure that you're getting enough light. And so yeah, it's really getting creative and, and, you know, a science museums, that's another thing. Okay, cold weather, you know, go go to museums. Go to if there's indoor gardens, aviaries, which are birds inside. We went to a fabulous one in Niagara Falls and it's cold in Niagara Falls. We were there in the summer, but right now you could go there. and look at the gorgeous falls and then enjoy an indoor, you know, museum. So, okay, it's being creative and rolling with the seasons. Yes. Well in when you were mentioning the environmental effects. That's not what I'm wanting to say. Well, I guess so I was thinking to myself and how we have those of us who are in a sea all the time we have become our bodies don't know how to adapt any longer. Have you learned about this? Or we're living in Florida? You your body changes, and then when it does get cold, it's like, it's so foreign. Right, right. Yeah. And how it's important for us to challenge our bodies. It's like children, you know, when they're when you're going out. And it's 60? Well, you know, we're both in Florida. So we're going outside at 60 degrees, we're both wearing sweatshirts, but the kids are wearing shorts, and they don't feel it. And they haven't had this adaptive response quite yet, like we do, where we start to get too comfortable with this specific degrees. And then when you go outside, you're actually challenging your body in a different way. To have to, you know, get used to that, it's a great way to challenge your body, I talk about movement a lot. And that's one thing that you are able to do, like when you go outside, it changes the way your body has to respond, which is a sense of movement, as well. So, very interesting. Yeah. And you know, there's a great book, there's no such thing as bad weather, which is another like nature parenting book. And she's over in Finland, with her kids. And clearly, you know, people have different experiences, depending on where they live. I mean, how about all the people up north, you know, where it's a snowy background, but they're sitting in the hot tubs outside? Mm hmm. So, you know, like, I when I think of that, I think I'm gonna get sick from it. But you know, they do it all the time. And, you know, that's another thing I was gonna say, you know, water is weather, obviously, natural water, ocean lakes are going to be more beneficial. But the whole concept of water and like floating and feeling light and free, you know, so if you do have access to like, a local community center, indoor pool, like that's another way to kind of connect to a nature or natural concept, even in the winter. That's perfect. Yeah. Awesome. Okay, can you tell me a little bit about the book? And where we can find you where we can learn more from you? Sure, yes. So the book, it goes through why nature so beneficial. Some of the real specifics of things like the colors, the textures, you know, all the sensory experiences, okay, and so that you start with that. And then I take you through different topics, so mindfulness, all and gratitude, food, or I'll jump into that bit about the soil benefits and gardening and other ways to connect to food and animals. And so, oh, creative arts. And so each chapter looks at this looks at why it's beneficial. Like, why is mindfulness itself beneficial, and then mindfulness of using nature. And so then I funnel it down, and then I go through all the all kinds of activities. Some are a little quirky than others, like cow cuddling, and forest bathing are some cutting edge, cool things that people can try. And then each at the end of each chapter, there's a checklist as well. Okay. Yeah. So you can, you know, kind of turn that into any, you know, any experience you want as a family. And there's some great stories in there. I've interviewed some, some wonderful people working on, you know, amazing therapy options through nature, like equine therapy with horses, whatever, cultural therapy. So there's kind of like different levels, you know, there's, there's just the level of hey, I want to just find with my kids outside, and then it gets to the level of, you know, my child is really struggling with anxiety, what can I do? And then how can I get professional help and in the realm of nature therapy, so um, yeah, there's really like a whole gamut of options, okay, for feeling happier and calmer with nature. Excellent. Thank you for all of that information. And I really like the information in regards to like, if your child is dealing with something specific and you're thinking like anxiety, depression, those types of things ADHD would like, yes. Okay. Okay. And I do, and I say it up front, you know, obviously, if your child is struggling, if you're struggling, you know, seek out professional help. Nature is not the end all be all solution, but it is part of the solution. So it can go hand in hand with therapy go hand in hand with medication. And then it can also be used preventatively, though, if you see that your child is starting to be stressed, like, think about, hey, why don't we do the homework outside and then go for a walk. And so just kind of being attuned to it to know, before it does get, you know, more serious that you're, I use it as a way to kind of keep them balanced. Okay. And then I also have this children's book as well. And the thing about that is, it's about a little girl's search for, for happiness through her watching her friends who happened to be on the beach, because she lives by the beach. But I'm doing these, you know, eco happy activities like painting a sunset doing outdoor yoga. And so it's a great, I think it's a great way for parents to start the conversation with kids. Okay, about you. How are they feeling? Because she's feeling pretty blue in the beginning? And then, you know, what can you do? To help you feel better? And you know, getting outside is part of that. Perfect. And website eco happiness? Eco Happiness Project? Calm. Okay. And are you on any other platforms? Yes, you can find me on Facebook and Instagram, at Get Eco happiness. Okay. And I'll make sure everything's in the show notes as well for you. And do you have anything that you want to make sure that our listeners know before you leave us? Yeah, I you know, nature is for everybody. All kinds of people and a lot. There are a lot of people who have a lot of barriers to reaching nature, financial, you know, social, all kinds of things. But nature is free. It's there, just step outside, look out the window. There's endless resources free online, you know, tons of even the and it's for everyone, no matter where you live. You know, that's also my message like it. I'm trying to reach a lot of suburbanites but also the people living in cities because even the most urban dirtiest, you know, populated city, they have parks, they have zoos, you know, they have gardens, and it's just, you know, really seeking it out. And the other thing is, when you do this with your kid, it's benefiting you. This is this is for all of us, we all need to feel happier and calmer, especially in these crazy times. So yeah, tap into some nature and feel better. Perfect. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you so much for having me it was great. Thank you for taking time out of your day to listen to our podcast. I hope you found this information valuable and hope that you are able to immediately use some of the information that was provided. Make sure to check out the show notes for all the links that we discussed today. I also wanted to let you know that if you are a mom who is wanting to begin to start making healthier choices, but are not sure where to start, or don't feel like you have a lot of time, I want to let you know that I offer a five day challenge that is free for you to get started on making small changes each day. It provides you with a quick five minute movement or workout routine, along with a five day meal plan with family friendly meals you will enjoy and a tip that will help you to find ways to move and live healthier. Just head to form fit naples.com backslash sit in the number five to sign up. Again, that information will be in our show notes. So just head there, click on that link and you'll be able to get started with the five day challenge immediately. Now make sure to go out and enjoy your day while practicing small healthy choices that will make lasting changes