164 | Navigating IBS and Achieving a Healthy Gut with Atavia

Struggling with irritable bowel syndrome can feel like an endless maze of discomfort and confusion, as both my guest Atavia and I know all too well. Atavia, a thoughtful online nutritional therapist, opens up about her personal battle with IBS beginning in her early twenties, sharing the hidden challenges of weight loss and anxiety. Throughout our conversation, we shine a light on the shortcomings of traditional medical treatments and underscore the transformative power of knowledge and self-empowerment in managing one's health journey.

Together, we navigate the fascinating yet complex relationship between the gut microbiome, food intolerances, stress, and inflammation. By demystifying these components, we reveal how they contribute to IBS and how personalized health screenings can pinpoint individual triggers like specific food intolerances or stressors. With these insights, listeners are encouraged to trust their instincts and consult with medical professionals to rule out other potential conditions, all while embracing the deeply individualized nature of health and nutrition.

In a world that often overlooks the importance of gut health, we offer practical strategies to enhance digestive wellness. From mindful eating and monitoring stool health to understanding the crucial role of dietary variability, we provide actionable advice that caters especially to busy women in midlife. By fostering a mindset of curiosity rather than frustration, we aim to empower you to make connections between symptoms, stress, and dietary choices, ultimately paving the way for more effective management and a healthier life. Join us in spreading these vital insights to foster a community rooted in well-being and understanding.

Here is the link to the podcast episode Atavia discusses:
Food Intolerance vs IBS

Learn more from Atavia:
www.atavianutrition.com

ig @‌atavia.minoudis

podcast Gut Reactions

Chapters

• 0:00 Irritable Bowel Syndrome and Gut Health
• 8:55 Understanding IBS Symptoms and Bathroom Habits
• 17:34 Mindset and Strategies for Gut Health
• 24:21 Dietary Variability and Food Intolerance
• 31:31 Navigating Food Intolerances and Gut Health
• 39:21 Listening to Your Gut's Messages

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

If you deal with tummy issues or stress, different kind of symptoms and maybe you've heard about irritable bowel syndrome or even been diagnosed with irritable bowel syndrome. This is going to be the episode you want to listen to. Today I'm speaking with Atavia. She's an online nutritional therapist who specializes in gut health and irritable bowel syndrome. She is going to be talking to us about her own journey and I happen to mention my situation as well, as I was diagnosed with IBS back when I was 13 years old, and you know we're going to discuss things. She's going to help guide us through some things that will lead you to success with your IBS and help you to reduce your symptoms.

Speaker 1: 1:02

Welcome to Moving Through Midlife. I am your host, courtney, a personal trainer and movement specialist who wants to help you move through midlife with more grace. Each week, we will discuss ways we can show up better for ourselves and our children without the burnout. We will focus on overall health through habit stacking to help increase energy, provide movement snacks to help you move more throughout the day, while also moving your body more, and learn from professionals on moving through midlife with ease so that you can feel confident with aging. Gracefully, grab your earbuds and join me on a leisurely walk while we discuss moving through midlife. Hi Atavia, how are you today?

Speaker 2: 1:49

I'm great thanks. How are you? Thanks for having me on.

Speaker 1: 1:52

Yes, I am so excited to have you on because you talk about your gut and irritable bowel syndrome. Yeah, and I suffered with irritable bowel syndrome when I was a child, so I am excited to be able to speak with you and learn from you and see what your take is on it and how you help people work through the diagnosis and what people can tend to work through their diagnosis, because I know you have more information in regards to that, as to why I said the diagnosis was a little spurt on my face, okay, so can you tell me just a little bit about yourself and what got you interested in studying or, you know, helping people with their gut?

Speaker 2: 2:47

yeah, sure, I mean it's quite a niche thing to want to talk about people's bowel movements, isn't it every day? Um, I mean, same as you I had. You know I was told I had IBS when I was in my early 20s, um, and had a whole host of issues really with my health, was always really really low weight, really struggled to put on weight, had a lot of anxiety, things like that, um, but the IBS was like the final straw. It was just something I couldn't. You just can't live with that.

Speaker 2: 3:10

Anyone who is listening, who's experienced that, will know it's just not something you can manage long term because it just impacts everything you know, every aspect of your life. So I decided to study nutritional therapy because I would go back and forth to doctors and be told nothing came back on your test. It's all quote-unquote, normal and you know, just try peppermint capsules. And I'm a big believer that in anything in terms of health, especially for women, we need to be empowered and have the knowledge and be able to make informed decisions and rather than being at the mercy of you know the medical profession that sometimes don't know. You know things that aren't kind of in disease state, like IBS. They don't always have the answers. So, yeah, I was very much a big believer of find out for yourself and then you can, you know, make the changes you need, take back control when I was diagnosed, I was 13, which was interesting to me, um, and I was in the same situation as you is.

Speaker 1: 4:03

I could not put on weight and my doctor spoke to me about, um, like I was drinking these terrible protein shakes not to what they are. I mean, that was what 30 years ago, 30, more than 30 years ago for me and um, the protein shakes that we were drinking were not what they are today. The protein shakes that we were drinking were not what they are today. And he wanted to do a colonoscopy and an endoscopy and my mom was like no, because they kept saying something about like stomach cancer, and my mom's like no, take a different route. So we ended up going to see a gynecologist and through work I know very odd, that the gynecologist was the one but she started asking me questions. She knew that I danced a lot, so she knew that I was probably burning through all the calories that I was consuming and I was not eating enough for the amount of calories that I was consuming and I was not eating enough for the amount of dance that I was doing. And she was the one who diagnosed me with irritable bowel syndrome.

Speaker 1: 5:14

Wow so yeah, it was very yeah it was very interesting, um so, and it's always fascinating to me how people will go to their doctor and their doctor will discuss different things about how like it's not the food that you are eating, as to why your stomach is having issues, and I'm like okay, what is it then? Yes, exactly so what, um? What have you found with irritable bowel syndrome and possibly gut issues? What have you tended to notice? Um can help people with their like. Once you're diagnosed, what? What do you usually recommend people do?

Speaker 2: 6:08

yeah, I mean in terms of irritable bowel syndrome and IBS. It it's a bit of a controversial thing in terms of a diagnosis because it's not a specific disease. Ibs is more a disorder that covers. You know, it's like an umbrella term for a bunch of different symptoms and I'm sure people listening you'll know some people can have IBS that's like diarrhea prone, or some people can have it where it's more bloating and constipation. It can be very different for different people.

Speaker 2: 6:33

But something I found throughout my time studying and working with clients is there tends to be four main areas you need to look at your IBS and they tend to be your gut microbiome, food intolerances, inflammation in your gut and stress.

Speaker 2: 6:47

Those are the four main areas that you need to work on and each person will be more prone to one. So stress might be the major trigger. But essentially you need to look at all four because all four will pretty much be at play for everybody. It's just that one might be more impactful than the rest and I don't I never say to people to not go to their doctor. I always encourage because you want to get anything else ruled out and, you know, get everything you know more sinister looked at and kind of across off the list.

Speaker 2: 7:13

But it's something that people tend to experience is going back and forth and not getting answers and not realizing that if it's not in a disease state something like crohn's or something like ulcerative colitis if it's not reaching that threshold, then the doctors that that's not their remit, so they don't necessarily specialize in that area, but people think they do, so they end up going back and forth for years and getting really frustrated and then not knowing there are holistic health practitioners who literally specialize in in gut health yeah, well, and I love what you mentioned with the four different things that irritable bowel syndrome might be, because for myself I thought it was stress.

Speaker 1: 7:52

My mom ended up giving me a book about irritable bowel syndrome and it was talking a lot about how to manage your stress, and I also dealt with a lot of anxiety. Now, as an adult, I have learned that my IBS and this was only because of my son that I found out that I'm allergic to corn so anything with cornmeal, cornstarch, any kind of corn product, affects me. And now I can go back in my memory and remember things that I was eating back then, because before I went to dance we would stop at Burger King and I would get. But it was like certain days that were it. You know, it was go straight from school to dance and that was on the way. So that's what I stopped and I got the. It was like a chicken sandwich but it was covered in cornmeal, and no wonder I dealt with irritable bowel syndrome. So the fact that you're saying that it is your microbiome, your intolerances, stress right and what was the fourth one, inflammation oh okay.

Speaker 1: 9:09

Inflammation, which is usually caused by possibly intolerances for sure and this is the thing it's.

Speaker 2: 9:16

It's so interesting when you I mean when you realize that and you kind of have like a memory recall of like you said all the times you would have been eating that and oh, it all just makes sense and everything just kind of slots into place and your brain's like, aha, that's what was going on, and then it just all makes sense, rather than being like what is going on with my gut and what's causing it. You end up just you have like a clarifying moment where everything just seems to, yeah, fall into place and you understand what was going on all that time yeah, so how do you work with your clients when it comes to that?

Speaker 1: 9:46

How do you like, is there a protocol that you follow, or do you start one place and how do you work through it for those?

Speaker 2: 9:57

Yeah. So everything I do with with every client we'll start with a very in-depth health screening and a initial consultation where we'll look in great detail at your health history. Was there any um, you know gastritis? Was there any food poisoning? Was there a lot of antibiotic use when you were younger or when you were a child?

Speaker 2: 10:14

All these different things that can show us what probably was the trigger. Like we're looking for a trigger here. If it was all of a sudden, out of nowhere and there was absolutely no change, nothing that could lead to interesting. So that could have been a food tolerant intoler. Out of nowhere and there was absolutely no change, nothing that could lead to, hmm, interesting. So that could have been a food intolerance then. Because if there was no stress, there was no change to medication or anything that can impact your gut microbiome like antibiotics. The only other thing kind of left sometimes is food intolerances. So we'll look at what the predominant trigger for them is and then what's continuing to drive it. But then we'll look at addressing all four areas with a specific focus on the main driver for them.

Speaker 2: 10:48

So for some people I've had people who are complete opposites in clinic but present with the same issue. So, people who have really bad bloating, maybe acid reflux too, and one person feels very stressed. The other person feels just as stressed, but one client needs to. Once we remedy their gut bacteria, the stress completely goes. The other person feels just as stressed, but one client needs to. Once we remedy their gut bacteria, the stress completely goes. And the other person? We can do all the work on the gut bacteria, but actually they need to work on reducing their stress, because stress was the main trigger for that person, whereas the other client they were stressed because their gut microbiome was so poor. They weren't producing, you know, and harboring, you know, serotonin, all the things your, your brain, needs to function and keep calm.

Speaker 1: 11:28

Um, so it's very, it's very much sort of like, you know, a jigsaw puzzle, putting together all the pieces and finding what you know, what's specific to that individual, whilst keeping those four areas in mind okay and this is something I always hearken to in my podcast is that there isn't just one thing, because I feel like people come when they look at health and fitness and all of it nutrition they all want just the simple plan that everybody gets Right. And it really isn't about that. It's really about learning about you and listening to your own body 100%.

Speaker 2: 12:12

And I say to people in clinic as well body intelligence is a thing and we're very, I think, conditioned to not.

Speaker 2: 12:18

We're very conditioned to just think science and proven facts, which is good, and obviously we need to utilize that and go to science. But also that just sometimes takes us away from our intuition. And I have people coming to me saying can we do this test and this test and all these really expensive in-depth testing? Like, yeah, sure, we can do them, but if you're saying that you know you feel sick when you eat gluten and you just have a feeling, why don't we just address that first and see if that, because some people, you'll know, in your body some is trying to tell you something. We've just become disconnected from our body and you know, ironically not listening to our guts and our gut instinct and also, like you say, there's different moving parts. So it's having a framework where you know for people, I find. I think they find it quite useful to have these four pillars that they look at, but they're still going to be very individual to each, each person, and it's that's not um, it's not going to only be those four things.

Speaker 1: 13:07

there'll be other other parts too, but it is being very unique to each individual okay, and if someone is like they're hearing this and they're like maybe I have ibs, is there are, and I know sort of the answer to this, but are there some key indicators as to what might be IBS?

Speaker 2: 13:36

Yeah, I mean you can, to be honest, do a quick Google search to see the main predominant types. It's really not that difficult to find the information. I think it used to be quite hard, but now it's such a common thing that there's so much on. You know, in the UK, like our NHS website, we have it. But it will be things like, you know, irregular bowel movements if that's loose, watery stools, diarrhea, if that's constipation, not going for days on end, or incomplete emptying.

Speaker 2: 13:59

You don't feel like you're fully gone when you've gone to the loo. Bloating, any like abdominal pain, you know, gurgling in the tummy, that kind of stuff. Those are all kind of key indicators of IBS and they're like the classic symptoms and there could be other things, which is why we always say go to your doctor and make sure everything else is ruled out first, and then, if they've done all that ruling out, there's no kind of like Crohn's disease stuff like that, then they'll probably say, yeah, it like IBS. And really what people say when they say it's IBS is that your bowel is irritated and we don't really know why or what's irritating it.

Speaker 1: 14:30

Okay, and then you mentioned gurgling and all of these constipation diarrhea. What is normal bathroom habits?

Speaker 2: 14:43

Yeah, great question. You know it's fascinating hearing people's norms, because everybody asks is completely different. Some people say that they don't go to the toilet for a couple of days. That is not normal. Going so much that you are noticing how much you're going is also not normal.

Speaker 2: 14:58

What I say to people is if you're having a well-formed, easy to pass door a couple of times a day, great, not to the point where you're ever having to think about it. But if you're aware, oh my god, I really need the loo, it's urgent. That's a sign you shouldn't really be having urgency. So generally, if you're aware that it's causing an impact on your life, or you're aware you're not going at all, that's an indicator that something's going wrong there. So we're looking at a couple of times a day, usually after waking. So maybe like half an hour an hour after waking. Not if you're having caffeine, because I know a lot of people do rely on caffeine to help them pass. That means that your gut's, you know, slowing down and it's needing to rely on something else. Um, but yeah, generally, going in the morning and then again another time during the day, an easy to pass stool, not super smelly, not super like difficult to pass.

Speaker 1: 15:45

That's a good sign okay and if you do have any of those um and maybe you can't answer this I was gonna say like, if you are dealing with diarrhea or smelly stools or um, um, what would be another one that I'm thinking. I'm trying not to do too much information around. Okay, first, let me ask this as well so, when we talk about stool, what is the normal, what should it look like? Because, like you mentioned, people drink caffeine and then have to go to the bathroom and that may change the consistency of the stool. Can you tell us what the recommended like, what it should look like?

Speaker 2: 16:41

Sure, I mean, if anyone wants a visual, I would definitely recommend googling the Bristol stool chart because that will show you, undoubtedly, what it should look like. But essentially it should be form, one, one piece, one well-formed stool. You know, you, it's not kind of snake like it's not super, um, like doesn't look slimy. It looks like it's well formed but not dry, um, kind of in the middle. So it has like a you know, not super liquidy consistency, but it's not super dry, it's not super liquidy. If it's super dark, that's a bad sign. If it's really pale or has any yellow tinges to it, that's also a bad sign. That indicates that you've got problems with your digestion, maybe with bile or your acid levels in your stomach, so like a sort of like a regular brown colour, really. But I would definitely recommend it's quite hard to explain it like in depth, like with words, but go and google Bristol stool chart and it will show you, you know, the different types of stool you should be having and which ones are the norm. Um, and don't be, don't be shy to look after you've gone, just make sure, like is this looking? You know, I know we bit to boom people. Don't talk about it, but just have a look and think oh, what's? What's my stool telling me today? Is this looking normal, or maybe not so much?

Speaker 1: 17:48

I know I always tell my children like I mean did you look? What are you talking about, mom? That's disgusting. I'm like no, it's called health.

Speaker 2: 17:56

You need to look and make sure it looks normal it's a key indicator and you know anything like if you're having mucus in your stool or if there's any, any blood in your stool. That's a sign that something's going on that you want to look at. So yeah, I know it's not something that people may be very keen on, but honestly it's part of your body and it's something that is such a good indicator of what's happening in inside your digestive tract. So, yeah, I would definitely recommend people get familiar with that and do you recommend?

Speaker 1: 18:24

I know you mentioned that there are different things that you recommend people do based on their situation, so you can't give us like I do this first, I do this second, I do this third. But is there a place for people to start, maybe, if they are struggling with IBS, besides going to the doctor, like, is there something that they obviously they should go see their doctor first? I'm not meaning that, but is there something they can start doing initially to kind of help guide them through this?

Speaker 2: 19:02

situation I would say it's. It comes in tears. So it depends on symptoms. Sometimes symptoms don't matter so much as what's causing them, but sometimes they do.

Speaker 2: 19:12

For example, if someone is experiencing chronic constipation or incomplete emptying, or they're having to really strain to pass the stool, the thing that everyone can do in that situation is look at how much are they moving throughout the day and how much are they drinking and what quality is the water they're drinking. Because if you're like most of us are sedentary, always sitting down, always driving places, not moving guess what? Your gut's not going to be moving through either, and that's a classic for constipation. So that's something super simple anyone can do get up and do a little bit of yoga, do a bit of walking a couple of times a day, just making sure you're helping your body to get things moving. And secondly, with water, making sure you're drinking enough water and it's not tap water. Usually tap water is not very good quality. It can be, you know, have trace elements of not very nice things in it. So making sure it's high quality, filtered water, because that's so important for your stomach acid, for example, and water keeps your gut lubricated.

Speaker 2: 20:04

So if you've got really poor quality water you're not drinking enough, your, your stools aren't going to be able to move through and they're going to get stuck, and they're going to be, you know, you're going to end up having constipation. So that's something that people experiencing constipation can do. If it's diarrhea prone or maybe more bloating, first thing I would look at is calming down before you start eating, making sure that your body is in a complete state of relaxation, because as soon as you have any level of stress, your digestive capability is completely compromised. Your blood moves away from your digestive tract and then what can happen is your body thinks I can't cope with this, I need to get rid of it quickly, and you can end up having diarrhea. So those are some basic things that you can start experimenting with, obviously without it being more in depth, but yeah, those are some basic things that you can start experimenting with.

Speaker 1: 20:46

Um, obviously without it being more in depth, um, but yeah, those are some basic things, places to start okay, um, and you sorry about that, and you mentioned with the eating, and that's something that I also recommend to my clients just the slowing down, because, as women in midlife, we are very busy. We're busy with children, we're busy with our family, we're busy with our business or our job, and we tend to be the people that kind of eat at the. I feel like moms, women, eat a lot standing at the kitchen sink, things like that. So how important it is to slow down, take a breath, get your body out of that fight or flight response, let it know it's a rest and digest time.

Speaker 2: 21:45

it's so important it really is. And I think definitely, as you mentioned, women, specifically women in midlife that put themselves Let it know it's a rest and digest time. It's so important it really is. And I think definitely, as you mentioned, women, specifically women in midlife, put themselves second, and for lots of reasons, because they either feel, you know're always overwhelmed and always thinking about other people and you just end up neglecting yourself basically.

Speaker 2: 22:13

But I mean, in terms of slowing down and calming down, it sounds so simple and so basic and almost too easy, but it honestly has one the biggest impact. So if you're super stressed, it can loosen your lower esophageal sphincter. Like, imagine you have elastic band at the bottom of your esophagus that keeps the acid in your stomach away from your esophagus. When people are stressed, it can loosen that. Then you can get acid reflux. So it's so important. Like you can't underestimate how much of an impact it has. And, honestly, if you're super busy and you're like I don't have five minutes to sit down and calm down, it can be as simple as doing, you know, four deep breaths and just four mindful breaths just to notice that your nervous system and try and calm it down a little.

Speaker 1: 22:53

Any little thing like that that you can do is going to help you massively okay and you mentioned how the mindset is one of the biggest things, not just when you're eating but throughout this whole situation. Do you have recommendations of how to help people kind of change their mindset around, maybe getting the diagnosis of IBS or any kind of gut health situation? Because it can be very scary and uncomfortable for people, no matter what they have, even if it's just gas and diarrhea and things like that, people can get nervous around that. So what do you recommend for the mindset?

Speaker 2: 23:41

A couple of things I like to recommend radical acceptance, acceptance and curiosity. I think with radical acceptance, what I mean by that is really truly, genuinely radically accepting the reality of your situation. That doesn't mean resigning yourself to that reality so that, oh okay, this is just what I've got and I've got to live with it. No, that's not the point. It's really radically taking a look at where you're at and, okay, at the moment I'm feeling really bloated and I struggle to know what's causing my symptoms, but it's causing lethargy. Rather than trying to fight against that and try and you know, I need to keep going to the gym and maybe if I do some sit-ups it'll make my belly smaller or whatever. It is just really accepting, right, this is the current reality of my situation. So what can I do to help myself care whilst I'm experiencing this situation? So it might be like, if I know that I'm stressed, giving myself a few minutes to take time out, or if I know that I might have a flare-up and have acid reflux or flatulence, giving myself permission to not go to a social event if it's going to be super uncomfortable for me, or knowing that I have safe restaurants I can go to, and not being afraid to say to people yeah, I'd love to go out for dinner, can we go here? Because that's going to be so much easier. I'm going to have a more enjoyable time whilst you're working through the diagnosis and you know if you're working with a professional to help you resolve the issues with curiosity.

Speaker 2: 24:56

This is really, really useful when you have specific triggers. So if you have any sort of random symptoms that come up and they seem to be interchangeable and you're not really sure you know they're not predictable basically they might be you might go weeks without having any issue and then suddenly you get bloated and you're like, oh, where's this coming from? As soon as you get frustrated or overwhelmed, you won't see the woods for the trees, like you won't be able to see what's just happened five minutes ago that may have triggered that, that issue, whereas if you just stop and just look at it through curiosity and think, hmm, wonder what's going on here, I'm suddenly bloated. I've not experienced this for a couple I don't know days or weeks. Let me just think what I've done the last hour or so or the last day or so and usually when that happens and I use this myself I'll think oh, actually now I've stopped and thought what's going on with me right now.

Speaker 2: 25:40

I'm really stressed and I was so stressed I wasn't even thinking about how stressed I was, because I was just thinking about the thing I'm stressing about. And then actually now I'm thinking about it, I've just driven six hours back home and I didn't eat very well and I had loads of, like you know, snack food on the motorway. Like, yeah, of course that's going to cause an issue. So just having like a curiosity mindset of what could be causing it helps you to come out of a state of overwhelm and then you're going to be more able to see some potential triggers, which is going to help you to like identify, you know, things that are contributing to your current situation okay, and you mentioned that it could be based on your situation, which you mentioned earlier, or it could be like a food intolerance.

Speaker 1: 26:23

I'm wondering, when you're mentioning this, could you be in a situation where some days you can tolerate a food, but other days you can't Like how that could be very confusing to people, is that? Oh, you know, I thought I had a gluten intolerance, but then I ate it the other day and it was fine. Well, for sure?

Speaker 2: 26:48

yeah, absolutely. I've actually done an episode on this exact thing, so I'll send you the link to put in the show notes. But it's you can.

Speaker 2: 26:55

You can have either, um, a level of intolerance where, say, someone's got gluten intolerance. And I've had this with someone. Said, oh, my friend's got gluten intolerance, but only if they eat a certain amount. I said that doesn't sound right. Said, oh, they can have like toast in the morning and they're fine, but then if they go out and eat a pizza they get really bloated. I thought, no, that doesn't mean that they're only intolerant to a certain amount. It means their gut can only handle a certain amount before it triggers symptoms, but they are going to be intolerant to it.

Speaker 2: 27:20

So you could have had a couple of days of eating lots of different types of gluten, but it was like a stacking factor, and then the final thing that you had was like the, the, it's it kind of, you know, the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak. Or you could have some days where you can eat it and it's fine, like if you have a certain food sensitivity or intolerance. But if you're really stressed, if your hormones are maybe all over the place, maybe if you've not been moving very much or there's you know something going on in your life that's made your body not super resilient, then the food can cause a symptom. Doesn't mean that you weren't intolerant to it before. It's just that your body was able to manage it better because maybe you were in a state of calm or your hormones were more regulated or, you know, your stress levels were lower, maybe. Yeah, so that can definitely happen.

Speaker 1: 28:05

Okay. So when that's happening, what are you usually recommending to people? Because I, I, I find with a lot of my clients they want to eat like the same thing day in and day out, and you know, I eat this every morning for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and then the next day I eat the same thing for breakfast, lunch and dinner. You know, like, maybe their dinner changes, but their breakfast and lunch are always the same and they get into this repetitive, which is, you know, we are habitual people. So I understand it, but could that be causing I know I just asked you like two questions, but, um, could that be creating some of this issue?

Speaker 2: 28:48

yeah, potentially. I mean, I've seen people in clinic who have eaten a very red meat heavy diet and everything that you eat. If you think, um us as people, we're hungry and we want to eat right, we need to eat the bacteria in your gut are the same. They're almost like many people that want to eat. So we don't just feed on the food that we eat. Our bacteria do as well, and everything you eat can either feed or sometimes starve those bacteria.

Speaker 2: 29:09

So, say you have quite a red meat heavy diet, you have the potential to overfeed bacteria. That may become pathogenic. They may cause issues. If they overgrow and you have too many of them, they may cause gas. Equally, if you're not eating lots of veg or fruit, you might be starving certain beneficial bacteria that help to digest certain foods and therefore you then end up not being able to tolerate those foods because you lack the bacteria, because you've starved those bacteria. So yeah, I mean for sure, you can. Definitely, if you're sticking to the exact same thing, depending on what it is, you know, depending on what the food is, there's potential for that to cause issue for sure.

Speaker 1: 29:45

Okay, yeah, I usually try to recommend to my clients to like vary it. Just, you know, if you're having oats this week, try to find a different grain next week. Or same thing with berries, or, you know, your fruit, whatever. Try to change up. It doesn't mean you got to go buy 15 things this week, but try to vary it over the month, finding different ways to help feed the good gut.

Speaker 2: 30:14

Yeah, and the variation is key because it's it's not that there's any one specific food, like with the red meat example I mean, I don't, I don't eat red meat but it's not that if you eat red meat it's always, only ever going to do that one one thing, but if you eat too much of it or your gut is already imbalanced, for sure it can. So that's why we look at variation. Right, having a varied, balanced diet. So having like the rainbow thing where you like, you want to have a rainbow with different types of fruits and veg. So you want a little bit of orange, some deep colors, like you know, blueberries, blackberries. You want some darky greens. You're getting all the different kinds of colors that that can be an easy way to remember it. And you know, having rotations, like you mentioned, is a great, is a great idea. Okay.

Speaker 1: 30:54

And I'm wondering as well, because we talked about intolerance to certain foods and when you mentioned the person who had the gluten allergy, well, well, maybe it wasn't an allergy, so they had a gluten intolerance can you first because I'm saying this, can you separate the two explain what the difference is between those two?

Speaker 2: 31:19

yeah sure. So an allergy is is far more serious. It has more of a um that the immune system that is activated. The immune cells are different so they have the potential to put you into anaphylaxis, basically because it sees it as an actual allergen that your body needs to attack. When we say intolerance, it activates a different type of immune cell which can be slower acting. It can come on a bit more slowly.

Speaker 2: 31:38

For some people it might be immediate that you notice it in your gut. For other people it could take a couple of hours or even days. But the response is generally it's not going to be, like you know, like an allergy, life-threatening um, necessarily. It's going to be maybe slower acting, um, and the symptoms can manifest in different ways. So where you have allergies you tend to have like a hystermine response.

Speaker 2: 32:00

So that could be like you know, your lips getting puffy or airways closing, that kind of thing with intolerances. They can manifest in different ways. So some people have intolerances and don't even have gut issues because the immune cells kind of move through the body and then they get migraines or they're really lethargic and they just can't work out why they're trying to sleep. But it's just. But it's because it's a food intolerance and because the immune system is slower acting, it just takes longer to to come on, so it's almost more difficult to know what you're intolerant to in that case, which is why testing can be so good for that okay and then based on the gluten intolerance because I understand allergies that you would probably want to see a doctor.

Speaker 1: 32:41

If you're dealing with allergies, this is more serious situation, but with intolerances, which I guess my horn is an intolerance yeah, I lost my train of thought, sorry. Is there ever an opportunity to like is it something that your gut just can't handle, or is it and maybe maybe it's both, or is it because of, like, we hear a lot about the leaky gut nowadays? Is it more based on we've got to get your gut healthy and then it can tolerate it? Like, how do you work with clients and help them with that? Does it mean you're destined to never eat gluten again?

Speaker 2: 33:30

Sometimes, unfortunately yes, I won't beat around the bush that is the case. A lot of people have what we call non--celiac gluten sensitivity, so it won't come up in a celiac test. You'll get tested for it and they'll say, nope, you don't have celiac. But you, you have a sensitivity that you will never overcome because your body just can't handle gluten. Some people have in have more sensitivity. So there is a difference between an intolerance as a food that your body could just cannot handle, for example, lactose intolerance. If you don't produce the enzyme that breaks that down and you never will produce it again, you will never be able to have lactose because, without you know, having a symptom flare up. Same with the gluten.

Speaker 2: 34:05

Sensitivities are different. Sensitivities are more where your gut's been damaged. You have leaky gut. Your gut isn't able to process and handle the food. In that case, if you just remove that food for for some time and look at some gut reparation work, you should be able to add that back in and your gut should start to be able to handle it. So it really is a process of. It's really a process. It's hard to say, um, you know immediately what, that, what, whether it's a forever intolerance or whether it's a sensitivity that you can kind of recover your gut, um, but you will know, once you've done some gut work and then you reintroduce it. If I eat gluten now, no matter how much I could, on my gut, I wouldn't be able to handle it. So that's pretty, pretty clear to me that I will never be able to eat gluten again, um, whereas something else that I might have had a sensitivity to, once I heal my gut a little bit, I can handle it again, um, and then I'm able to eat it again okay now with you.

Speaker 1: 34:57

like you just mentioned, you can't eat gluten. What did you do to help work through your IBS, because you were told you just had to live with it forever? Did you go through the four-step process with yourself? Is that how you healed yourself, or?

Speaker 2: 35:19

pretty much. I mean, I think, with IBS. I realistically I don't know if it's for some people it'll be something they will always live with though. So for me I would say I still have IBS and it's I would call it like in remission. If I do certain things and certain things can trigger it. Some people will have a case where they just had one very severe sensitivity and then then, once that food's gone, they don't have. They technically don't meet the IBS threshold anymore. So it's different.

Speaker 2: 35:43

But for me, yes, I kind of got my IBS into what we'd call remission by going through that process without really realizing I was doing it. So I, through studying nutritional therapy and then realizing later on being diagnosed with ADHD and noticing, oh yes, the stress and the constant agitation and I feel that in my stomach okay, I need to start doing something to unwind my stress and calm myself down a bit that had a huge impact. Looking at populating my, my gut with beneficial bacteria, using digestive enzymes to help me break down food that really helped. And then looking at calming down inflammation, which for me was fought from lots of different food sensitivities. So I kind of did all these different things through learning about them without really realizing what I was doing. Um, and that's kind of how I did it, but I think for me the main things were stress and not eating properly, um, and also having intolerance foods I didn't realize intolerant I was intolerant to mainly lactose and gluten okay.

Speaker 1: 36:40

So what I'm hearing is there's a lot of things that are involved with healing a gut and you have a podcast all about this. Right, can you share with us, like because cause I think you know, like I had mentioned, that people want the I'm going to do this, this and this and all things will be better, but it really is more involved and not that it's difficult. Yeah, it's not difficult. It's just having to listen to yourself and then have guidance from someone like yourself who can kind of help guide, to let them know what to listen to. So can you share with us what your podcast?

Speaker 2: 37:29

is Sure. So my podcast is called Gut Reactions. It's all about IBS, sandero's Bowel Syndrome, and it is basically what I like to try to call call. It's sort of like making IBS sort of basic and easy to understand, because there's so much information on IBS and it all seems really conflicting and you'll google and one person will say one thing, one person will say another thing. It really is like you say.

Speaker 2: 37:50

It's not a one cure for all people. There's lots of different moving parts. However, that doesn't need to mean that it's complicated. So what I like to do in my episodes is to make it easy to understand, so that it's more simple to kind of like, overcome your IBS. So we'll look at those four different parts and how to know which one is the main contributing factor for your IBS. Perhaps I've got like an interactive quiz on my podcast as well where you can go for and complete that quiz and it will tell you which one is probably the main contributing factor for your IBS. Is it stress or is it gut microbiome, for example? Um, so yeah, we'll look at all these different moving parts and how to apply it to your own life. So, rather than just giving information, it's kind of practical, of like, how can you actually use this to start experimenting with it, to notice any changes in your gut and, you know, get yourself better?

Speaker 1: 38:38

basically, because that's ultimately what we want, right right, right, and I love the name gut reaction oh thank you. It's great, thank you. Okay, so can you tell our obviously listeners they can listen to the podcast, but where else they can find you?

Speaker 2: 38:57

yeah, so you can find me on instagram. Um, I'm at ataviamanudis, so you can find me on Instagram. I'm at ataviamanudis bit of a long name, as I'm sure, I'll put in the show notes.

Speaker 1: 39:03

Yes, I will.

Speaker 2: 39:04

Thanks my Greek dad for giving me that one and on my website, which is atavianutritioncom. But yeah, the main place I'm active is my podcast, and then a little bit on Instagram too.

Speaker 1: 39:19

And then they can learn about you through your podcast and, yeah, perfect, I love it. Thank you, oh, actually, let me ask you one more question, if people could. If they're dealing with some gut issues, what is one thing that they can focus on this week to kind of help guide them through better understanding their gut?

Speaker 2: 39:36

I would say, for me it's a mindset shift of that your gut isn't out to get you and it's not trying to cause you issue, but it's trying to tell you something. And I know that might sound a little bit like woo, woo or like I want one thing that I can do that's going to get rid of my symptoms, but honestly, you have to be honest with yourself about where you are right now and your gut is trying to tell you something and as soon as you start to approach out of a level of curiosity rather than frustration, you're far more likely to start to notice links between certain situations, be it stress, be it food, whatever that might be. So, yeah, that would be my advice.

Speaker 1: 40:10

I love it. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day for this conversation yeah, it was great, was great.

Speaker 2: 40:16

Yeah, it's lovely. Thanks for having me on Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: 40:25

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